Jack Fruchtman Jr., Professor of Political Science and Director of the Program in Law and American Civilization at Towson University, is the author or editor of six books. He is a specialist in eighteenth-century social and political thought, having commented extensively on several prominent figures of the era.

Fruchtman has written two books on Thomas Paine: Thomas Paine and the Religion of Nature,Thomas Paine: Apostle of Freedom. In addition, he has analyzed the works of Richard Price and Joseph Priestley in his book The Apocalyptic Politics of Richard Price and Joseph Priestley, and he has annotated Helen Maria Williams's memoir of the French Revolution in An Eye-Witness Account of the French Revolution by Helen Maria Williams. He has also written on Thomas Hardy, Thomas Spence, and Thomas Reid.

He served as associate editor for history, philosophy, and religion for the publication Britain in the Hanoverian Age, 1714-1837: An Encyclopedia and is currently the American advisory editor for a multi-volume collection of papers from the London Corresponding Society of the 1790s. He is currently working on a book-length study of Benjamin Franklin and his circle.

Meeting Transcript

Club Leader: Thank you for joining. Can you tell us a little about your interest in Thomas Paine? You have written a few books on him, is that correct?

Jack Fruchtman: I first became interested in Paine when I was a college freshman (about 40 years ago!) and since then I've actually written two books about him.

Club Leader:What aspects of Thomas Paine did your books cover?

Jack Fruchtman: The first book covered his political and social thought (a quite scholarly attempt to get at him) and the second was a biography designed to appeal to the general reader.

Club Leader:Do you address Thomas Paine in your teachings at the university?

Jack Fruchtman: I do so in a couple of courses: I teach a course that looks at the origins of American constitutional history, and Paine, for example, is quite relevant here.

Club Leader:Ok - let's start some questions from book club members. Jack Ferratt of Abingdon VA asks:What was the connection (if any ) between Tom Paine and another great New Yorker Huguenot American founding father, John Jay?

Jack Fruchtman: Paine and Jay knew each other quite early on, but they never really got along. Jay, for example, never forgave Paine for releasing information about the new American relationship with the French in 1778 and their relationship worsened over the French Revolution and Paine supported it, and Jay opposed it and supported England.

Jeffrey Carter of Jacksonville Beach FL asks:Could you tell me if Thomas Paine was a freemason? Whether he was or was not could you expound on if anything is known about what he thought of the philosophy of the Ancient Tenents of the Freemasons.

Jack Fruchtman: Paine was "most likely" a Freemason. He wrote about them in the early 19th century when he returned to the U.S., although his works on them were not published until after his death in 1809.

Club Leader: Can you explain to us what a freemason was at that time?

Jack Fruchtman:The origins of Freemasonry was rooted in the Illumination of the German Enlightenment, which had a great influence on England and America, and their basic tenets were that human beings had a free spirit that had to be nurtured within the person.

RobinM in Maryville, MO asks: Mr. Fruchtman, I have come to the conclusion through reading many different sources including your book that Paines ultimate demise or expulsion from American society in his later life came from two factors-The silas Deane Affair and his disdain for the landed Gentry mentioned in his work Principles of Government, would you agree with this conclusion or are there more important factors ?

Jack Fruchtman: I would say that those two factors were important, but you cannot underestimate the impact of his work called "The Age of Reason," which many people saw as not only anti-religious, but atheistic. Some folks still believe that Paine was an atheist and still hate him for it! Of course, his trenchant attack on the Federalists after his return to America in 1802 didn't help his cause either!

AlanaL in Forest Hills, NY asks: What was the Silas Deane affair and Paine's role in it?

Jack Fruchtman: negotiate an alliance, including money and ships, from the French, but quickly became a war-profiteer (that is, he sold French materiale to the Americans at Al analinflated prices and kept the differences). As a patriot, Paine found out and revelaed the whole affair in print.

hughmacdougall in Cooperstown, NY asks: Despite New York State's grant of a small farm, it is my impression that Paine died both in poverty and largely forgotten. Could you comment?

Jack Fruchtman: Paine died poor, no question. In fact, his largest amount of money came right after the American Revolution when Congress awarded him a grant of around $3,000. He was generally hated by the time he died and there were only a few people at his funeral.

member asks: Hello I am a 8th grader in Texas and I am taking U.S history and I would like to know more about how Thomas Paine helped out

Jack Fruchtman: Helped the American Revolution? Well, if that is your question, it is a good one. His work, Common Sense, was the first public, printed argument about why the Americans should separate from England. It was printed in January of 1776 and the Declaration of Independence appeared six months later.

I don't mean that there was a direct relationship between the two documents, but that Paine was very influential. Paine's work was widely read, finding buyers in the neighborhood of some 150,000 initially and no doubt more afterwards.

Barb Mitchell of Quincy IL asks: Why is Common Sense considered a book that changed the world?

Jack Fruchtman: I think Common Sense has to be viewed as one of the most influential works ever published in America.

rickcain in Grand Prairie, TX asks: for the 8th grader. Don't we have to give Paine credit for the sep. of church & state?

Jack Fruchtman:As for the separation of church and state, yes, Paine was very much in favor of that, but it was Madison and Jefferson who first brought that to the public's attention in their work in Virginia in the 1780s.

russphillips in New York, NY asks: Was Thomas Paine a Diest?

Jack Fruchtman: Paine was indeed a Deist. Many people think of him as an atheist, but even in The Age of Reason, he clearly says he believes in God as Creator, the fundamental principle of a Deist.

Byrce Alynn Gorman in Eugene, OR asks: As the Founder Of The MINISTRY Of SERVIVE XII (DEIST) I am delighted to see the excellent program on C-Span here in Oregon. We are actually the only (interpreted) Deist Religion, and we thank Dr. Foner especially for his help and wisdom in the course of these events. Are there any other Organized Deist Assemblies in the USA?

Club Leader:Professor Fruchtman - do you want to add any comments about how his being a deist impacted his writings?

Jack Fruchtman: I am afraid I cannot answer that question, except to say that I know of many people who believe in Deistic principles, but may not identify themselves specifically as Deist.

rickcain in Grand Prairie, TX asks: Paine was a Deist, but admired the works of Jesus, the man.

jessied in Rancho Cordova, CA asks: How was Thomas Paine viewed by contemporaries at the end of his life given his relatively short time in America?

Jack Fruchtman: Paine did not believe in miracles. His admiration clearly stops at what he might see as God's intervention on earth or how God may specially identify some people to speak to on earth. Many people thought poorly of Paine. And a lot of this had to do with his rather angry writings at the end of his life.

Club Leader:Why was he angry?

Jack Fruchtman: He hated the Federalist attacks on Jefferson. In particular, he thought that Adams's whole purpose in life was to be a king in America, and he wrote about this in rather nasty terms.

member asks: was he a federalist?

Jack Fruchtman: Paine was decidedly not a Federalist. In fact, he probably defies classification, but if we were to try to fit him into a "party," as it was in the 18th century, he would be a democrat.

Euniceed in Windham, CT asks: How influential was Paine to Lafayette's position in the American Revolution?

Jack Fruchtman: Paine met Lafayette (who was quite young when he came to serve as an officer in the American cause), and I think Paine was quite influential on L's thinking. After all, within 13 years, the Revolution in France broke out, and Lafayette was head of the National Guard at the time supporting the Revolution (and soon Paine was there too, living for a time with Lafayette).

judson in Wesptport, MA asks: I understand Dr. Benjamin Rush actually encouraged Paine and gave Common Sense its title. Paine had want to call it something like Straight Talk. Is that correct??

Jack Fruchtman: Many of Paine's friends, like Rush, Franklin, and David Rittenhouse, thought a pamphlet should be written about American independence. Paine, they agreed, should write it. Paine wanted to call it "Plain Talk," but Rush convinced him of Common Sense

RobinM in Maryville, MO asks: Could you explain the incident when Paine was imprisoned during the French Revolution, and is it true that his pleas to George Washington went unheard?

Jack Fruchtman: Paine was picked up by Paris police in December of 1793 and remained in prison until the following November. He never had an opportunity to correspond with the President George Washington, but he was quite angry at his release to learn that the Washington administration did nothing to help him.

Don_Potter1 in Orange Park, FL asks: How did Paine gain recognition and credibility with the leaders of the American Revolution?

Jack Fruchtman: Paine was in Philadelphia in November of 1774 on, and became the editor of the Pennsylvania Magazine, in which he wrote many political and social articles. He also was a frequent visitor to a bookstore, where he met many of those who were at the Continental Congress in 1774.

mes28269 in Charlotte, NC asks: What was thomas paine's role as a solider during the american revolution?? Did he fight in any battles?? Was he at Valley Forge??Was he an adie-de-camp to General Nathaniel Greene?

Jack Fruchtman: He was indeed at aide-de-camp to General Greene, but so far as I know he never was a combat soldier. His major role was to write on behalf of the American cause, which became the 13 pieces we know as the American Crisis.

member asks: Dear Sir, even though Paine became so popular why did he die in poverty , was it his writings on religion or that he just have bad luck in his later life?

Jack Fruchtman: Paine was popular in the 18th century mainly during the American Revolution. He began to lose popularity, so to speak, after he argued against Silas Deane in 1778-79, and then with his support of the French Revolution, many thought he had gone too far. His anti-religious writings certainly didn't help either.

bobkoff in Brockport, NY asks: what is the Silas Deane affair and how did Paine expose it?

Jack Fruchtman: Deane, a Connecticut congressman, was sent by the American government to France to arrange military and financial help during the Revolution. He was quite successful, but when he got all the equipment from the French, he sold to the Americans at a handy profit for himself. Paine hated this and exposed Deane, and when he did, he also prematurely exposed the American's relationship with France. The American government was incensed. In fact, he had to resign his position in the government.

RobinM in Maryville, MO asks: Is it true Paine almost lost his head during the French Revolution?

Jack Fruchtman: Well, it's hard to say. He was imprisoned, and many of his co-prisoners did in fact go to the guillotine. He claims he was spared only because the guards mismarked his cell door. Hard to say, though.

emlan in Deerfield Beach, FL asks: During the period of the American Revolutionary War, were the colonies opting for the only republican government in existence at that time?

Jack Fruchtman: Actually, the Americans thought they were doing something quite new. It may be hard to believe, but England regarded itself as "republican," only a republic with a king. Republican government had mostly to do with the way in which power is divided among the people, i.e., king, Lords, and Commons. The Americans were to have a republic without a king.

RobinM in Maryville, MO asks: Is it true Paine refused money for his works?

Jack Fruchtman: Paine could have accepted profits (royalties) for his work, but he refused to. For example, he turned all of his profit for Common Sense over to the American government to purchase mittens for the troops.

Robert L. Turner, III of Rockwall, TX asks: Do we know any living descendants of Mr.Paine?

Jack Fruchtman: Paine, unfortunately, had no children, hence no descendants. Unless someone can come up with a Jeffersonian tale!

RobinM in Maryville, MO asks: Did Paine and Jefferson ever get together and create any writings?

Jack Fruchtman: No, the two never collaborated. The reason is that Jefferson, who was born in 1743, was a bit younger than Paine and when Paine returned to England in 1787, he lost contact with Jefferson until he returned to America in 1802. By that time, Jefferson was president and couldn't politically connect with Paine.

vivian of los angeles CA asks: How were Franklin and Payne acquainted in England? 2. How could Payne return to England at all after being part of the revolution?

Jack Fruchtman: You first question is easy: Paine met Franklin at a scientific meeting in London and Franklin immediately thought he was extraordinary. Your second question is more difficult: Paine claimed that he was returning to England in 1787 to (1) see his mother! and (2) sell his bridge design.

19Kevin asks: I'm a U.S. history teacher I us Howard Fast's novel Citizen Paine in class. How accurate is his account of Paine's life?

Jack Fruchtman: It really is a quite good novel, but we have to accept it as a novelization of Paine's life. Fast certainly was an early advocate of Paine and his place in American history, but he has written a work of fiction, not history per se. I wish I could write as well as Fast!

Club Leader:What would you recommend teachers do to introduce their students to Thomas Paine?

rickcain in Grand Prairie, TX asks: Is Thomas Paine's works taught in public schools today? I can't remember ever hearing of him until I was out of high school

Jack Fruchtman: I think there are two things for teachers to do, depending on the age of the children. First, children should know that Paine occupies a place in American history as firmly as Jefferson, and second, they should read Common Sense. No, as far as I know, no public school requires any children to read the works of Thomas Paine.

parquerd in Kent, OH asks: Paine is often seen as having anarchist leanings. How would his thoughts on government compare with folks such as Thoreau, Paul Goodman, and Noam Chomsky?

Jack Fruchtman: Paine was not an anarchist. He did believe in limited government, as many of his colleagues in the 18th century did. I would not compare him to Thoreau, Goodman, or Chomsky. Godwin does, however.

Tom in W.Spfld MA asks: On C-SPAN, the guest says he was a brilliant writer during the revolutionary war. What influenced him while he was in England that made him such a great writer?

Jack Fruchtman: This is a question that I, for one, have been unable to answer. And I do not think anyone else has either. Paine had schooling to age 13, and then followed a variety of crafts, though he was a schoolmaster for a short period. He came to America at age 37 and from there found his metier, so to speak: where it came from, I do not know.

rickcain in Grand Prairie, TX asks: where was Paine born? was he an American citizen?

Jack Fruchtman: Paine was born in Thetford, England, in 1737, and came to America in 1774. He never became a formally naturalized American (the INS did not exist then), but he always thought of America as his spiritual home afterwards. Even while living in France in the 1790s.

AlanaL in Forest Hills, NY asks: What did Thomas Paine die of and where was he?

Jack Fruchtman: In our terms, Paine died of congestive heart failure after a terrible bout of edema. He died in New York City in 1809.

RobinM in Maryville, MO asks: Although Paine claimed to be a citizen of the world did he ever express his loyalty as an American citizen?

Jack Fruchtman:Paine wrote extensively of his love of America. I wrote a piece about this (I say modesty) in the new journal published by the Thomas Paine National Historical Association, just last year.

Club Leader:Where can we read your article?

Jack Fruchtman: www.thomas-paine.org. I think that's the web site. The journal is in print

kate88 in sebastopol, CA asks: This might have been stated in the program. Why did Paine return to France?

Jack Fruchtman:Paine had to flee England in 1792 because he had written Rights of Man, which included a direct attack on the king of England. France was the only place he could then go.

rickcain in Grand Prairie, TX asks: Did Paine ever get any grief directly from the Catholic Churches?

Jack Fruchtman: No, so far as I know, the Catholic Church never attacked Paine.

Mark Pacana of Cherry Hill NJ: Where in Philadelphia could I go to see Thomas Paine artifacts? Are any taverns that he may have visited still standing?

Jack Fruchtman: I would suggest a visit to New Rochelle to the Thomas Paine Museum and House. It's only open on the weekends, however, because it's staffed by volunteers. Of course there's the City Tavern in Philadelphia!

mango in dryden, NY asks: Do we know of any influences Paine had on H.D. Thoreau?

Jack Fruchtman: Thoreau read Paine and I think he influenced him a great deal, but specifically I cannot say how. Thoreau's attempt to get back to nature is in Paine's spirit.

Club Leader: C-SPAN Plans to air a program on Thoreau in this series on May 7.

rickcain in Grand Prairie, TX asks: How can the religious right claim America is founded on Christian values when most of our founding fathers were Deist?

Jack Fruchtman: Interesting question: I would say that the religious right wields great power in this country simply because they make unfounded claims that most people seem to accept without confronting them.

RobinM in Maryville, MO asks: I heard earlier on the C-SPAN program about a memorial for Paine in Washington do you know anything about that?

Jack Fruchtman: There has been a long attempt to build a monument for Paine in Washington. Almost eight years ago, Congress agree to place on on the Mall between the Capitol and the Lincoln Memorial, but nothing's happened!

Club Leader:Thank you so much for joining us today. I hope everyone in the meeting room enjoyed the discussion.

Jack Fruchtman: Thanks everyone!

Club Leader:Mr. Fruchtman, do you have any last comments?

rickcain in Grand Prairie, TX asks: thank you Jack

Jack Fruchtman:I hope that this discussion may stimulate folks to read a bit of Paine. Anything!

Club Leader:The transcript will be available later tonight in the meeting room!

mbritt in Lumberton, NC asks: Thank you, Jack Fruchtman and C-SPAN

kelp in nyc, NY asks: the presentation about Tom Paine is centered in New Rochelle. but in lower Manhattan (grove st. i believve)there's a plaque on one of the buildings that he lived there.

Jack Fruchtman: Pleasure! There is a plaque on his last address where he died on Grove Street.

Club Leader:Thank you - see you all on Monday when we discuss Thomas Jefferson and James Madison.