Mr. Jim Baker is the Vice President, Chief Historian, and Director of Museum Operations for Plimoth Plantation. In these positions, Mr. Baker oversees management of the Research Division, which includes Native American Interpretation and Special Projects Departments. Mr. Baker assists the President of the museum in co-ordinating the work of the division with Business Affairs, Museum Operations, Marketing and Development. Mr. Baker is a graduate of Boston University and earned a M.L.S. from the University of Rhode Island.

Mrs. Peggy Baker is currently the Director & Librarian of the Pilgrim Society in Plymouth, MA. From 1991 - 1994, Mrs. Baker served as the Curator of Manuscripts and Books for the Pilgrim Society. As Director, she is responsible for oversight of all aspects of Society operations, primarily focusing on the management of the Pilgrim Hill Museum, the oldest continuously operation museum in the United States. Mrs. Baker is the Co-author and Editor of Thanksgiving by the (Cook)book and has been the Curator for Harvest Home, Thanksgiving "Over There", Thanksgiving a la carte, and The Great American Turkey.

Meeting Transcript

community manager: Thank you for joining the first Book Club Meeting. Our guests are Jim and Peggy Baker. I will start off with the first questions tonight: What is the difference between a Pilgrim and a Puritan? Why did the Pilgrims come the Plimouth?

Jim and Peggy Baker: The difference is that Puritan is a general term for a person involved in the English Reformation. A Pilgrim is a specific kind of Puritan. For example, a Baptist is a specific kind of Protestant. The Pilgrim came to Plimoth by mistake. They had been heading to the mouth of the Hudson River which was where their Charter allowed them to settle. Although Plimoth is many miles east, it is only a half of a degree of latitude north and therefore they were only off course a little bit north and south when they hit Cape Cod.

msaggio (Cleveland, OH) Being a late bloomer as far as desiring an understanding of American History, I'm following this series closely. I read William Bradford's book and thought it was so well written and possessed of such warmth I felt as though Master B was talking to me personally.

community manager: What do you think of the book?

Jim and Peggy Baker: The book is remarkable as a history for dealing with motives and emotions as well as with facts. I is simply written and yet vividly written. Both style and content have made it highly appealing to generations of Americans.

jeremymcm1 asks: What did Bradford do after the pilgrims settled?

Jim and Peggy Baker: After the Pilgrims landed, the first Gov. was Gov. John Carver. Bradford was just one of the colonists. John Carver died in the first Spring. Bradford was made Gov. thereafter.

Bookeeper (Baltimore, MD): I am a big fan of William Bradford. He was governor for 30 years between 1621 and 1656. Did anyone challenge him? How long did it take to write the Mayflower Compact? How did he distribute it throughout the colonies?

Jim and Peggy Baker: Bradford was Gov. because often he couldn't get out of the job. He was so well thought of that he had to beg people to give him a year off here and there. the Compact, we have no idea how long it took. But it wasn't more than three days. It was only known or used in Plimouth itself. It wasn't published until 1669.

politico asks: Apart from Plymouth Plantation, were there any other places that the Pilgrims migrated to?

Jim and Peggy Baker: You could say that the Pilgrims also migrated to Holland before they came to Plimoth. But otherwise, no.

Ruth from Shepherd, MO: My ancestor was Thomas Rogers and his son Joseph. Do not find much about him in 'Of Plymouth Plantation.' Do you know of other books that would give detail about the individuals and their generations to follow?

Jim and Peggy Baker:There are several excellent books tracing the lives of the early colonists. One it called "Plymouth Colony" by Eugene Stratton. Another is called "The Great Migration Begins." Another excellent source of info is the General Society of Mayflower Descendants.

Eliot J. Chandler Bowdoinham ME: Was there ever any mention in Bradford's lifetime of the name of the vessel that took that 1620 voyage being called the Mayflower?

Jim and Peggy Baker:The name of the vessel was known to everybody who came over in the ship in Bradford's lifetime. But Bradford himself never mentions the name. It first turns up in the Division of Land in 1623.

Janm asks: For how long was W. Bradford Governor of Plimoth? And who proceeded him?

Jim and Peggy Baker: Bradford was Gov. from 1621 until his death in 1657, with a couple officious of years off. He was preceded by John Carver.

community manager:Can you tell us about John Carver?

Jim and Peggy Baker:We don't know that much about Carver. He came from the Lincolnshire area, where Bradford came from. Outside that he was an important man who outfitted the Mayflower with supplies, we know very little. He had no descendants.

Martyp asks: Did Bradford have any children, if so, how many?

Jim and Peggy Baker:Yes, Bradford had children by both of his marriages. He had a son, John, by his first. And three children by his second -- named William, Mercy, and Joseph.

community manager: What did his children go on to do?

Jim and Peggy Baker:We don't have the details of that. We'd have to look that up in a book.

amosfred asks: There is a picture shown in the program that has the Pilgrims walking through the woods accompanied by soldiers. What is the name of the painting and who is the painter?

Jim and Peggy Baker: The painting is by George Boughten. The original name was something like "The Puritans on Their Way to Church." But it was later called "The Pilgrims on Their Way to Church."

Craig asks: As you saw on the program, or on the C-span writers web site, is the Bradford drawing or the portrayer resemble him at all? Are there any known descriptions?

Jim and Peggy Baker:We have no description of William Bradford. The only Pilgrim who had his portrait painted in life was Edward Winslow. He travelled back and forth to England and had his portrait painted on a trip in 1650. That portrait is now in Pilgrim Home Museum. Make that -- Pilgrim Hall Museum.

Dyann asks: Was there a passenger aboard the Mayflower by the name of Chase?

Jim and Peggy Baker:No. There was no one named Chase aboard the Mayflower.

community manager:Can you tell us how many people were aboard the Mayflower? How can one find out if their ancestors were on that trip?

Jim and Peggy Baker:There were 102 passengers on the Mayflower, and we're not sure how many crewmen. To find out if one's ancestors came on the May., you have to look back on your own family line until it connects to one of the 2 dozen Pilgrims who had descendants.

bookfan2000 asks: Was Bradford the only author of the Mayflower Compact? And who were the persons and how many that signed the Compact?

Jim and Peggy Baker:We don't know who wrote the Compact, although Bradford may have helped. His nephew, Nathaniel Morton, listed 41 men as having signed the Compact.

John S (Centerville, PA): John Endicott, to me is an interesting character, as he was quite a radical 1628-1634, but then he toned down, and became Governor. What would ask him if you were able to travel back in time and spend Thanksgiving with him?

Jim and Peggy Baker:I'm not sure we would enjoy having Thanksgiving with Endicott. He was not a Plimouth man, and therefore we cannot speak to it.

community manager:Peggy, can you let tell us a little about Thanksgiving Over There in which you were a curator?

Jim and Peggy Baker:The Thanksgiving Over There is an Online exhibit that traces Thanksgiving as celebrated by the American Armed Forces. Beginning in the Civil War in the 1860s through troops stationed in Bosnia in the late 20th Century. Thanksgiving has always been a special holiday for American military men separated from their families. The exhibits available Online at www.pilgrimhall.org under the Subject Heading of Thanksgiving.

community manager:Peggy and Jim Baker are now speaking on-air. We will be with you shortly.

ronruth asks: Since there were children left alive after the first sickness, is there a record of who took care of them and their parent or parents died?

Jim and Peggy Baker:Yes there were a number of children alive after the first Sickness. They were basically either taken care of by families -- such as Edward Winslow marrying the widow White. I can't remember other examples of families combining, but that was common at that time.

wellread asks: How fast did the population grow when the plantation was just being built, until later years?

Jim and Peggy Baker:The Plantation grew very slowly at first in population. By mid-century there were only about 350 people.

Pilgrim Guy (Burlington, VT): I have always been fascinated with the Pilgrims. How did you become interested in this period of time? Are your ancestors Pilgrim?

Jim and Peggy Baker: Becoming interested in that period of time, I myself grew up in Plymouth and am a descendant (Jim). But Peggy is neither. She neither grew up in Plymouth, nor is a descendant.

Shonda asks: As a librarian myself, I would like to know about Peggy's background and how many years she has worked as the librarian at the Plimoth museum?

Jim and Peggy Baker:My background is a Library Degree from Wayne State University and I have library experience from the Henry Ford Museum in Michigan. I came to Plimouth and joined the Pilgrim Society as librarian in 1991, and added the duties of Director in 1995.

ppaul888 asks: Didn't a large group of people come in the 1630's?

Jim and Peggy Baker:Yes, a large group came to New England in the 1630s, to Massachusetts Bay but only a small number of these seem to have made their way down to Plimoth.

nativeson asks: How long did Governor Bradford preside over Plimoth Plantation?

Jim and Peggy Baker:Bradford, except for a couple of years, presided over Plimouth from 1621-1657.

BMcguire: How many American can trace their descendants to the Mayflower?

TrudiD asks: What modern day religion is most closely associated with the Pilgrims? We're not sure how many, but it's up in the millions. Perhaps 20 million.

TrudiD asks: What modern day religion is most closely associated with the Pilgrims?

Jim and Peggy Baker:I'm not sure what group would be most closely associated because there are very few strict Calvinist groups today. A key factor in the Pilgrims' religion is their belief in Predestination. This means that they could not affect their own salvation but had to await the reception of Grace from God from without. Most modern Christians believe that one can accept Christ voluntarily. The Pilgrims did not.

TrudiD asks: Quakers possibly?

Jim and Peggy Baker:No. In fact the Pilgrims very mush disliked Quakers and found them to be quite difficult to accept the idea of inner Grace.

AlanaL asks: My physician tells me that pewter cups and plates which were used by the pilgrims and british contained lead. Is there any record of illnesses associated with a modern day diagnosis of lead poisoning?

Jim and Peggy Baker:The pewter that the Pilgrims, some contained lead -- but very, very little. We have very little evidence of lead poisoning because there were so many other things that killed them off.

ppaul888 asks: I am a descendant of Hopkins, Howland and Tilley. Is it common for Mayflower descendants to find multiple connections? And do you know what the records of multiple connections might be?

Jim and Peggy Baker:The population of Plimoth Colony was very small. Those people who can identify one May. ancestor will find eventually that they have several. They married within the colony and the families became intertwined.

nativeson asks: Were there other specific reasons(financial and so forth) beyond a desire for religious freedom that led the Governor on his voyage to Plimoth?

Jim and Peggy Baker:We're not sure about the Gov., but desire for religion and English culture were most important, but economics was up there too.

Stovepipe asks: How many of the Pilgrims could actually read? Did the average citizen depend heavily on church leaders to interpret the Bible for them?

Jim and Peggy Baker:The Pilgrims had a relatively high rate of literacy, probably as high a rate as up into the 20th Century in America. Even the Native Americans in Plimouth Colony became literate. The interpretation of the Bible, however, -- they did rely on their church leaders for meaning, not for simply reading.

annieo asks: i used to live in salem. what, if any, is the relationship of that plymouth village to this?

Jim and Peggy Baker:The relations between Salem on the north shore and Plimouth were few, although some people from Plimoth moved there at a later date. And there was an argument about a fishing stage on Cape Anne. This was at an early date.

Jtroon asks: I am interested in the animals that came over with the Pilgrims. Is there a record of which ship held which animals?

Jim and Peggy Baker:We're not sure if any animals came on the May. We do know that the first cattle came on the Jacob. In the first 3 ships, somewhere, goats & pigs & chickens all came over. There were two dogs on the Mayflower however.

Holt in Greensboro, NC asks: Why did the Pilgrims travel at the harshest time of year instead of waiting until summer?

Jim and Peggy Baker:There was a problem with the Pilgrims' emigration. They had intended to leave in August, but were held up with financial problems. Having sold their belongings and having no place to go, they had to continue when they could - in September.

bpieh asks: Elizabeth Bassett, born 1626 in Plymouth, has the distinction of being party to the first divorce in the colony. I have heard various about the divorce proceedings and results for Elizabeth. What have you heard?

Jim and Peggy Baker:I can't speak to that without a bit more research.

Shonda asks: Another librarian question: Are the materials available in the library primary sources, modern, or a combination of many items and are they available for the general public or are they basically closed stacks?

Jim and Peggy Baker:There are many primary source materials available in books in print. Bradford's Journal, Mourt's Relation, The Records of Plimoth Colony, -- have all been published. Many materials can also be found Online.

NevadaNana asks: Was there formal schooling?

Jim and Peggy Baker:No, there was not, until the 1670s, any formal schooling. But various families either taught their own children or arranged for other people to teach their children.

AlanaL asks: I have never been able to understand the attitudes of indian peoples toward european settlement of this country until I saw Linda Coombs on this program. At first I resented her hostile or at least cold and dismissive manner in the midst of this wonderful and revealing program. It made me angry as I felt she was spoiling things. But as the program went on and she talked I began to see another side. The Europeans , in fact all emigrants have just come in and squatted on the property of another nation and disregarded that other nation brushing it aside so to speak. I am very disturbed by this idea. I knew it before but it never really lived or had any meaning in an emotional sense before Linda sat there in the Plantation and talked about it. I am now very uncomfortable with this idea. I no longer feel entitled to this place. This is not a question I guess except for me.

Jim and Peggy Baker:All through history, various peoples have imposed themselves on other peoples. Certain ones have become more meaningful to us that others because we feel a kinship to one side or the other. But countless people have suffered conquest and are now forgotten. In the larger sense, we cannot single out one side or the other for particular blame.

Carol Wagner: What would the status and prospects in the colony of any unmarried adult women? And were there any Hester Prynnes?

Jim and Peggy Baker:There were very few, if any, unmarried women in Plimouth Colony. The culture of the time held that marriage was a requirement for both social and economic success. The original of Hester Prynne and her Scarlet Letter was a Plimoth Colony resident that Hawthorne used as a model.

Stovepipe asks: What sort of things did the Pilgrims do for entertainment in their new community. Did they have access to popular books and such?

Jim and Peggy Baker:The didn't have much in the way of entertainment in our sense of the word. The most important entertainment was sermons. Especially the sermon that was sometimes given on lecture day, which was a Thursday, which dealt with current topics rather than theology. They did have some forms of sport, but these were often considered illegal.

LILincoln asks: On TV it was mentioned that Plymouth had information about the massacre at Jamestown - how long would that information take to move between Plymouth and Jamestown?

Jim and Peggy Baker:A passing ship, a couple of months or even less after the massacre, came by Plimouth from Virginia and gav ethem news of the massacre. The Pilmouth colonists then quickly built their fort and pallisade.

judithdavis asks: Great program with fond memories as our whole family reenacted the Francis Cooke family in the summer of '78.

Jim and Peggy Baker:What's interesting is that they found the Cooke family in the summer of '78. That was the first year that Plimoth Plantation had its program of role-playing.

Jim and Peggy Baker:On the Popham colony in Maine -- it did occur in 1607. In the next year they all gave up and went home.

community managerOne last question. bmcguire: What is the relation between pilgrim descendants and the Boston Brahmins who controlled Boston into the 20th Century?

Jim and Peggy Baker:There is actually very little connection between the Pilgrim descendants and the Boston Brahmins. Both groups have great pride in their ancestry, but the Pilgrims seldom have any money and the Boston Brahmins do. The Mayflower descendants may be better known, but they never had the success that the Brahmins had.

community manager Thank you for participating in our first book club meeting. Please join us on Monday for our next book club talk with Benjamin Franklin at 11 am ET. A transcript will be up within the hour!

TrudiD asks: Excellent--------Thankyou

Jim and Peggy Baker:Thanks. We enjoyed participating.